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Comrade Frost (Signed)

Dreadnought (Signed)

Voin Zhenshchina (Signed)

 

Ok so the Codus Immortus is now signed by Dreadnought, Comrade Frost, and Voin. It is open to anyone who wants to plough through a dry tedious philosophical thread with me (which does of course require you to like me) and has an immortal PC. 

 

More importantly, I am now turning my mind to threads exploring the philosophy and ethic of the immortal, the codus, and life in actual play. 

 

This involves some legal thinking so if Thevshi (or anyone legally minded) wants to help draft something succinct with a bit of style, that would be great. 

 

But also, which Freedom City standard NPCs might have joined? If you have played these characters that would be particularly valuable as that gives a good insight - not that I am opposed to other opinions but nothing beats having them in a thread to get to grips with their mind set. 

 

I will update this list with suggestions and additions following advice, but as I see it, From FC Book...(as I am rubbish with Canon I dont even know if these guys are dead or alive or MIA so updates would be good...). Looking for a consensus, here...

 

(As point of reference, Codus open to human or near human immortals. Undead is a grey area). 

 

 

Chapter 2

Lucius Cabot - possible yes?

 

Chapter 3

the Patriot - no?

 

 

Chapter 5

Daedelus - Not sure if he would sign

Metropolis - Probably  not? (not his agenda)

Siren - Not sure

 

Chapter 6

Horisima Shadow - Probably not? Although he has seen some horrors?

Medea - Probably yes? A bit of paranoia and experience might want to give her the safety net and not much to lose?

Baron Samedi - Probably no? (if elligible at all)

Cosmic Mind - ?

Dr Sin - sounds like a good candidate to me. Arrogant but perhaps less so towards immortals, self obsessed but would like the grandeur. Honorable despite everything?

Hellqueen - not sure if elligible, but probably wouldnt anyway. 

Mastermind - interested, a maybe? He suffered horrible torment at his beginning. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Supercape

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Quote

Lucius Cabot - possible yes?

I think Lucius would sign solely to find out who else is involved.

 

Quote

the Patriot - no?

Simmons, for all his bad qualities, sees his role as foremost a protector of US interests and would, I think, politely decline the offer since that might conflict with his other oaths and he's not inclined to be caught between conflicting loyalties again.

 

 

Quote

Daedelus - Not sure if he would sign

Metropolis - Probably  not? (not his agenda)

Siren - Not sure

 

Chapter 6

Horisima Shadow - Probably not? Although he has seen some horrors?

Medea - Probably yes? A bit of paranoia and experience might want to give her the safety net and not much to lose?

Baron Samedi - Probably no? (if elligible at all)

Cosmic Mind - ?

Dr Sin - sounds like a good candidate to me. Arrogant but perhaps less so towards immortals, self obsessed but would like the grandeur. Honorable despite everything?

Hellqueen - not sure if elligible, but probably wouldnt anyway. 

Daedalus is cynical and fatalistic enough that he'd probably agree to it to have people around who could stop him if he starts to get more mastermind-y.

Metropolis is largely constrained to their domain of Freedom City and has no interests or understanding of ambition.

Siren sees her responsibility of proving humanity's worth and protecting them from Baron Samedi as greater by far than any ideals of non-intervention. 

Medea would most likely see it as a waste of her time. If she can't get something out of her eternal life she doesn't see the point, and other immortals have been getting in her and each other's way too long for her to trust that won't happen because some of the nicer ones got idealistic.

Baron Samedi's entire gig is trying to show how nasty humanity and all mortals truly are. He'd agree to it to so he could have a front-row seat when it fails.

The Cosmic Mind is so far removed from human thought that the request would be meaningless to her.

Dr. Sin is uncertain. He's already been outfoxed at least once by Overshadow and has had to work with him and Taurus for decades. Might not want to deal with even more immortals in his business.

Hellqueen would only join so she could get everyone else possessed by demons.

 

 

 

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You have left off Overshadow (and by the same token, Scarab), though not sure if a constantly resurrecting soul counts or not (though Overshadow has basically figured out a workaround on that).

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Overshadow is trying to make people think he's gone for good since Jack killed him back in the 90's, so his being part of it would make for some weirdness since the other Immortals would surely notice that something's up. 

Scarab, I think, would definitely be up for it...and not be able to keep up their side of the game since they keep dying, spending years or decades of their new life rediscovering their true nature, and then dying again.

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I am not sure we hold to that Ari, Myrmidon's backstory was pretty tied to Overshadow being active.  Besides, if Dr. Sin is part of the Codus, he knows Overshadow is still around.  But Overshadow likely would not be overly interested I would guess.

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Yeah but SHADOW being all secret to lure the world into a false sense of security requires that next to nobody knows how Kantor operates. If the Scarab is a lone voice in the wilderness about an unseen threat, it's a little weird to then add that these other people also have a handle on him.

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My inclination is to leave Overshadow out of Codus for now. I am not sure I can quite elucidate why, but it feels a bad fit somehow. Maybe he is simply to confident and egocentric to ever feel beholden to anyone but himself. 

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It might also be worth pointing out that the codus is not about none interferance at least fromt he three points outlined, life is insidious after all and drags people into it.

 

Its simply a Pact that should any member become unethically imprisoned or facing torture that the other members will do all that is reasonably within their power to emancipate them or see them transfered to more humane incarceration.

 

From reading some of the other recruitment threads it might also deal with self policing of the members though for the most part only so far as revoking the privileges that come with membership (protection, Access to the headquaters and features as well as the services of other members.) and only in the most extreme cases, such as vandal savage attempting to destroy half the world, or hellqueen threatening to drown the prime dimension in demons or the archevil event take active intervention against other immortals to ensure that they do not fall into the above situations of unethical incarceration and Promethean torments.

 

Such as experimentation by rogue goverment Ops.

 

It could also offer to Facilitate the imprisonment of immortals facing "Life sentences" by offering immortal jailers.

Edited by Exaccus

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im also pretty sure, having witnessed his birth, been in the thule society and ww2 mr Murk would recognize the soul and think better of it from and IC perspective.

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On 26/02/2018 at 1:29 AM, Avenger Assembled said:

Overshadow is not eligible for membership because he is a world-conquering monster that PCs should not be in cahoots with. His existence is not secret in our site canon. 

 

Thats right, although "cahoots" is a strong word - there is nothing in the CI that says immortal members cannot oppose each other, arrest each other, incarcerate each other or fight each other (except in the later case in the actual Clubs - like Highlander or John Wick as examples). Worst enemies could be part of it, as long as they dont kill / torture each other (or by omission allow these to happen). 

 

That said, Overshadow is such a global threat to everybody that he could not join on that basis - in fact, he poses such a threat that he actually harms immortals just by his existence, and would likely be actively opposed by the Codus. In addition, his word means squat - and if your word means squat, then no point giving it or accepting it. 

 

if Dr Sin joined, for instance, it would still be entirely reasonable for other members to arrest him and / or take down his organisation - and they would not be obliged to help him out of any jam or give him special favour. The only exceptions would be about death (incl. Capital punishment) or handing him over to some particularly brutal incarceration or experimentation ("Cruel and unecessary punshiment"). I don't see Blackstone or indeed any regular (Western) society being likely to fall into these categories. 

 

Does anyone have any objection to the following joining?

 

Daedelus

Dr Sin

Lucius Cabot

Edited by Supercape

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Why would members of the Codus Immortus break a villain out if he's facing lawful capital punishment?

I recognize there's a lot of debate about the ethics and morals of it, but what in particular makes them obligated to, for instance, break Dr. Sin out if he finally gets caught and senteced for having, what, at least a 4-digit body count on his own, and probably a couple more digits when you count his minions? 

Why does Doctor Sin deserve to get broken out of prison? Is his life worth more than his victims?

Why should Daedelus expend resources for Doctor Sin and not innocent non-immortals who are imprisoned by tyrants? 

In other words, why should the heroes on this accord go out of their way only for other immortals, and especially immortal villains, but not regular people?

Again, I'm not trying to knock this but I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't been in the threads in question. 

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This is the nature of the debate, KD, and is precisely why the threads have been alive - debating these very points.

 

Whilst I appreciate there are politics around this, the CI is, by design, going to create just the type of conflicts you mentioned above. That's not to everyones taste - either player or character - but it is to some. Obviously when it comes up in play it will be handled with sensitivity and we aren't going to play out politics here - but we will be playing out ethics and philosophy of the characters. All the conflicts you mention are quite real and have in fact already come up (by and large) in the threads to date. 

 

The question of why an immortal should be prioritised over a mortal has also been discussed and, of course, it is not that simple - and it is not a matter of prioritisation that clearly either. I won't do justice to the threads so far to condense these matters down to a few pithy sentences, but in principle it is because Immortals have particular dangers not faced by mortals. Also if a PC or NPC doesn't like it, they can leave without issue. The CI is completely voluntary both in terms of joining and leaving.

 

Would Daedelus join? I don't know if anyone has actually played him here as an NPC to get inside his headspace to give direction. It is of course, by design, a contentious thing. For me, I would think he would err on the side of joining but thats an entirely subjective view and the only way of deciding is, I suppose, a consensus of subjective views. 

 

Breaking out of prison is actually a particular point to bring up (and we are specifically talking about getting broken out facing the death penalty - incarceration itself would be a non-issue). It brings into focus the question of responsibility for inactivity vs activity, and of course what would constitute reasonableness. Breaking someone out of prison is both against the law and personally dangerous. Would that be required? no. Handing him over to the authorities to face certain death (as opposed to incarceration) might be another matter. However, applying pressure legally to make a plea bargain (and avoid the death sentence) if incarcerated would probably be a reasonable requirement if it is within the skill mix of the character. 

 

What the CI is not - is a secret cabal of immortals all promoting and helping one another with secret handshakes. Its a final defence against being persecuted, victimised, prejudiced or tortured for being an immortal. Absolutely nothing would stop Daedelus or other PCs from actively seeking out Dr Sin and throwing him in Blackstone - and making sure he doesn't get broken out. 

 

There might be an interesting discussion about infinitely long incarceration and whether that is cruel or unusual. Another time, though!

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Honestly if this is building on pre-existing story threads, it'd be helpful to link them, especially if this is going to be a longer-term setting element. Anyone who wasn't in those threads and doesn't know which to look for is going to feel lost, like I do right now. 

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A fair point, I will put link to threads at top of the this one. 

 

As to how this plays out long term - I have no idea! Watch this space, I suppose. 

Edited by Supercape

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I would probably say no to Cabot, sort of the whole point with him is that no one knows he is an immortal.  While yes other immortals might be able to figure it out enough to suspect he is, it just seems his actually joining is an admission that he is, and brings him under possibly closer scrutiny of others, particularly heroes that are immortal.  That is probably not something he wants.

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I'm trying to decide if Grimalkin would join; I think I need to read the threads to make up my mind. She is on record as telling her staff (and even her own children!) how to kill her if she ever turns evil, so she's not opposed to extreme measures, and she is immortal.

 

Hmm....

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You could always decide by a thread playing it out....

 

One point is that the CI is for humans or near humans rather than gods, aliens, or magical beings. I think Grimalkin would qualify as basically human, but mull that over. 

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I think daedalus would join personally, i've not seen much of him in anything 2e or beyond but from what i can tell he took to the stars for a long soul searching journey with metagrue so its reasonable to assume after some isolation he might seek company and his own fears of becoming the villain (particularly after witnessing the archevil event) might lead him to seek countermeasures against his own fall.

 

it has been mentioned (in Voin's thread) that the codus would take action against immortals (members or not) whom world do terrible things so maybe theres a bit of a inter member pact between those who worry about such things that they will vote in favor of action being taken against each other and perhaps lead the charge on such matters if they should turn to cruelty and evil.

Edited by Exaccus

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Something is coming up soon, but I am running the prologue with Exaccus (Vision of Fire). 

 

Something a bit Welsh, a bit Dutch, and a Bit Hong Kong. there will be some globe trotting around. Partly via the Portals of the Club immortus, partly via your wallets and private jets and so on. 

 

Mr. Murk will only be a cameo. 

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