The Clown Exterminator - DrBalloon - PL10 Villain

[DrBalloon]

I know that this is far from finished, but I'd like to hear what mistakes I'm making so far, and how I could tighten things up game mechanics-wise.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

Players Name: DrBalloon

Power Level: 10 (150 PP)

Characters Name: The Clown Exterminator

Alternate Identity: Varies - current alter ego/host is Frank Fendelstein

Height: As his host

Weight: As his host

Hair: As his host

Eyes: As his host

Description:

History:

Stats:

Str: 01 (-5)

Dex: 01 (-5)

Con: 10 (+0)

Int: 10 (+0)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 16 (+3)

(Char points -8 so far)

BAB:

BDB:

Initiative:

Saves:

Toughness:

Fortitude:

Reflex:

Will:

Skill ranks (not bonuses):

Bluff 9

Craft: Artistic 2

Diplomacy 7

Disguise 2

Drive 2

Gather Information 15

Investigate 15

Intimidate 8

Notice 12

Perform: Acting 6

Profession: Police Officer 4

Profession: Performance Artist 15

Sense Motive 4

Search 5

Swim 2

(Skill points = 27)

Feats:

Beginner's Luck

Benefit: Deep cover Police Officer

Connected

Contacts

Inventor

Jack-of-all-Trades

Well-Informed

(Feats points = 7)

Powers:

"Clown Fever Infection" (18 points)

Possession 1 [Extras] [Flaws]

[Feats]

(This is his central power as a superpowered, sentient disease, linking all of his infected hosts together on a subconscious level. Thus, his ability to perceive through the senses of multiple hosts simultaneously. The death of a host doesn't harm him, and he doesn't prevent his hosts from retaining consciousness or remembering what they did while possessed. His control isn't recognized as such by the host, either, being believed and rationalized as their own actions. However, his control is so subtle that he can't take action this way on a normal timescale, rather, his commands are enacted over a prolonged time scale, by groups of hosts doing their individual parts without being aware of what they are actually working towards.

The Permanent flaw represents that he has no body truly his own, existing solely as the disease. Incurable represents that standard superpowers and medicine won’t work against this particular ailment. Reversible and Selective allow for him to vacate the body of someone if needed, and avoid re-infecting them.

The Survival extra works like it does for Duplication; so long as he has a host out there, he’s not really dead. However, regaining a primary host after one is slain may take a bit.

The extremely low power rank makes it unlikely he’ll infect super-heroes or a real super-villain, and gives most normal folks a reasonable chance to avoid catching him from casual contact.)

“Primary Host†(14 points)

Possession 1 [Extras]

[Flaws]

[Feats]

linked to

Teleport 9 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

(Notes: No Saving Throw is being used here since the only thing he can teleport to is another, already infected/possessed host. No Saving Throw also automatically won’t work if he’s trying to jump into someone of PL4 or higher; they get a normal save to resist coming under his direct control. He isn’t physically teleporting, he’s shifting which host is the current Clown Exterminator. The old host remains on active status in the network for a minimum of three times as long as he was the host.)

“Theatrical Immunities†(39 points)

Immunity 37 (Aging, Life Support, Starvation/Thirst, Own Powers,

Sensory Effects, Trait Effects, Alteration Effects,

Mental Effects) [Extra]

[Feats]

(Notes: These immunities are shared by his *active* hosts. In people where they are just part of his network, they don’t apply except to defend the disease and the network. In someone involved in one of his active plans, the immunities are functional, but not obviously so. So you can still transform, mind control, or drain his hosts, so long as it doesn’t interfere with their designated role or endanger their lives. The hidden immunity will even kick in retroactively, suddenly “healing†the host to save them.

Sensory Effects is protection from things that use your own senses to affect you, not immunity to things which attack your senses like dazzle. I estimated it to cost 5 points.)

“Police Scan†(13 points)

Super-Senses 13 (Detect Legal Status, Free Action/Sense, Acute, Accurate,

Radius, Extended x2, X-Ray Vision, Radio Communication)

(Notes: Yup, he can tell who and where the cops are, who’s wanted for something, spot whether someone has a record, and do it all in a wide range around his primary host. Kind of like having a video game screen pointing stuff out. The one substance that blocks his perception of legal status is sugar, so hiding behind the candy aisle can be a valid concealment. He doesn’t sense actual guilt or innocence, he senses the person’s status in the eyes of the local law enforcement.

He also hears radio communications, typically on the police bands and news programs.

Neither of these senses are shared with his hosts’ awareness.)

“Active Hostsâ€Â

Empower 5 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

Drawbacks:

Costs: Abilities (-8) + Combat (00) + Saves (00) + Skills (27) + Feats (7) + Powers (??) - Drawbacks (00) = Total Cost

[DrBalloon]

I know that this is far from finished, but I'd like to hear what mistakes I'm making so far, and how I could tighten things up game mechanics-wise.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

Players Name: DrBalloon

Power Level: 10 (150 PP)

Characters Name: The Clown Exterminator

Alternate Identity: Varies - current alter ego/host is Frank Fendelstein

Height: As his host

Weight: As his host

Hair: As his host

Eyes: As his host

Description:

History:

Stats:

Str: 01 (-5)

Dex: 01 (-5)

Con: 10 (+0)

Int: 10 (+0)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 16 (+3)

(Char points -8 so far)

BAB:

BDB:

Initiative:

Saves:

Toughness:

Fortitude:

Reflex:

Will:

Skill ranks (not bonuses):

Bluff 9

Craft: Artistic 2

Diplomacy 7

Disguise 2

Drive 2

Gather Information 15

Investigate 15

Intimidate 8

Notice 12

Perform: Acting 6

Profession: Police Officer 4

Profession: Performance Artist 15

Sense Motive 4

Search 5

Swim 2

(Skill points = 27)

Feats:

Beginner's Luck

Benefit: Deep cover Police Officer

Connected

Contacts

Inventor

Jack-of-all-Trades

Well-Informed

(Feats points = 7)

Powers:

"Clown Fever Infection" (18 points)

Possession 1 [Extras] [Flaws]

[Feats]

(This is his central power as a superpowered, sentient disease, linking all of his infected hosts together on a subconscious level. Thus, his ability to perceive through the senses of multiple hosts simultaneously. The death of a host doesn't harm him, and he doesn't prevent his hosts from retaining consciousness or remembering what they did while possessed. His control isn't recognized as such by the host, either, being believed and rationalized as their own actions. However, his control is so subtle that he can't take action this way on a normal timescale, rather, his commands are enacted over a prolonged time scale, by groups of hosts doing their individual parts without being aware of what they are actually working towards.

The Permanent flaw represents that he has no body truly his own, existing solely as the disease. Incurable represents that standard superpowers and medicine won’t work against this particular ailment. Reversible and Selective allow for him to vacate the body of someone if needed, and avoid re-infecting them.

The Survival extra works like it does for Duplication; so long as he has a host out there, he’s not really dead. However, regaining a primary host after one is slain may take a bit.

The extremely low power rank makes it unlikely he’ll infect super-heroes or a real super-villain, and gives most normal folks a reasonable chance to avoid catching him from casual contact.)

“Primary Host†(14 points)

Possession 1 [Extras]

[Flaws]

[Feats]

linked to

Teleport 9 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

(Notes: No Saving Throw is being used here since the only thing he can teleport to is another, already infected/possessed host. No Saving Throw also automatically won’t work if he’s trying to jump into someone of PL4 or higher; they get a normal save to resist coming under his direct control. He isn’t physically teleporting, he’s shifting which host is the current Clown Exterminator. The old host remains on active status in the network for a minimum of three times as long as he was the host.)

“Theatrical Immunities†(39 points)

Immunity 37 (Aging, Life Support, Starvation/Thirst, Own Powers,

Sensory Effects, Trait Effects, Alteration Effects,

Mental Effects) [Extra]

[Feats]

(Notes: These immunities are shared by his *active* hosts. In people where they are just part of his network, they don’t apply except to defend the disease and the network. In someone involved in one of his active plans, the immunities are functional, but not obviously so. So you can still transform, mind control, or drain his hosts, so long as it doesn’t interfere with their designated role or endanger their lives. The hidden immunity will even kick in retroactively, suddenly “healing†the host to save them.

Sensory Effects is protection from things that use your own senses to affect you, not immunity to things which attack your senses like dazzle. I estimated it to cost 5 points.)

“Police Scan†(13 points)

Super-Senses 13 (Detect Legal Status, Free Action/Sense, Acute, Accurate,

Radius, Extended x2, X-Ray Vision, Radio Communication)

(Notes: Yup, he can tell who and where the cops are, who’s wanted for something, spot whether someone has a record, and do it all in a wide range around his primary host. Kind of like having a video game screen pointing stuff out. The one substance that blocks his perception of legal status is sugar, so hiding behind the candy aisle can be a valid concealment. He doesn’t sense actual guilt or innocence, he senses the person’s status in the eyes of the local law enforcement.

He also hears radio communications, typically on the police bands and news programs.

Neither of these senses are shared with his hosts’ awareness.)

“Active Hostsâ€Â

Empower 5 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

Drawbacks:

Costs: Abilities (-8) + Combat (00) + Saves (00) + Skills (27) + Feats (7) + Powers (??) - Drawbacks (00) = Total Cost

[DrBalloon]

I know that this is far from finished, but I'd like to hear what mistakes I'm making so far, and how I could tighten things up game mechanics-wise.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

Players Name: DrBalloon

Power Level: 10 (150 PP)

Characters Name: The Clown Exterminator

Alternate Identity: Varies - current alter ego/host is Frank Fendelstein

Height: As his host

Weight: As his host

Hair: As his host

Eyes: As his host

Description:

History:

Stats:

Str: 01 (-5)

Dex: 01 (-5)

Con: 10 (+0)

Int: 10 (+0)

Wis: 14 (+2)

Cha: 16 (+3)

(Char points -8 so far)

BAB:

BDB:

Initiative:

Saves:

Toughness:

Fortitude:

Reflex:

Will:

Skill ranks (not bonuses):

Bluff 9

Craft: Artistic 2

Diplomacy 7

Disguise 2

Drive 2

Gather Information 15

Investigate 15

Intimidate 8

Notice 12

Perform: Acting 6

Profession: Police Officer 4

Profession: Performance Artist 15

Sense Motive 4

Search 5

Swim 2

(Skill points = 27)

Feats:

Beginner's Luck

Benefit: Deep cover Police Officer

Connected

Contacts

Inventor

Jack-of-all-Trades

Well-Informed

(Feats points = 7)

Powers:

"Clown Fever Infection" (18 points)

Possession 1 [Extras] [Flaws]

[Feats]

(This is his central power as a superpowered, sentient disease, linking all of his infected hosts together on a subconscious level. Thus, his ability to perceive through the senses of multiple hosts simultaneously. The death of a host doesn't harm him, and he doesn't prevent his hosts from retaining consciousness or remembering what they did while possessed. His control isn't recognized as such by the host, either, being believed and rationalized as their own actions. However, his control is so subtle that he can't take action this way on a normal timescale, rather, his commands are enacted over a prolonged time scale, by groups of hosts doing their individual parts without being aware of what they are actually working towards.

The Permanent flaw represents that he has no body truly his own, existing solely as the disease. Incurable represents that standard superpowers and medicine won’t work against this particular ailment. Reversible and Selective allow for him to vacate the body of someone if needed, and avoid re-infecting them.

The Survival extra works like it does for Duplication; so long as he has a host out there, he’s not really dead. However, regaining a primary host after one is slain may take a bit.

The extremely low power rank makes it unlikely he’ll infect super-heroes or a real super-villain, and gives most normal folks a reasonable chance to avoid catching him from casual contact.)

“Primary Host†(14 points)

Possession 1 [Extras]

[Flaws]

[Feats]

linked to

Teleport 9 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

(Notes: No Saving Throw is being used here since the only thing he can teleport to is another, already infected/possessed host. No Saving Throw also automatically won’t work if he’s trying to jump into someone of PL4 or higher; they get a normal save to resist coming under his direct control. He isn’t physically teleporting, he’s shifting which host is the current Clown Exterminator. The old host remains on active status in the network for a minimum of three times as long as he was the host.)

“Theatrical Immunities†(39 points)

Immunity 37 (Aging, Life Support, Starvation/Thirst, Own Powers,

Sensory Effects, Trait Effects, Alteration Effects,

Mental Effects) [Extra]

[Feats]

(Notes: These immunities are shared by his *active* hosts. In people where they are just part of his network, they don’t apply except to defend the disease and the network. In someone involved in one of his active plans, the immunities are functional, but not obviously so. So you can still transform, mind control, or drain his hosts, so long as it doesn’t interfere with their designated role or endanger their lives. The hidden immunity will even kick in retroactively, suddenly “healing†the host to save them.

Sensory Effects is protection from things that use your own senses to affect you, not immunity to things which attack your senses like dazzle. I estimated it to cost 5 points.)

“Police Scan†(13 points)

Super-Senses 13 (Detect Legal Status, Free Action/Sense, Acute, Accurate,

Radius, Extended x2, X-Ray Vision, Radio Communication)

(Notes: Yup, he can tell who and where the cops are, who’s wanted for something, spot whether someone has a record, and do it all in a wide range around his primary host. Kind of like having a video game screen pointing stuff out. The one substance that blocks his perception of legal status is sugar, so hiding behind the candy aisle can be a valid concealment. He doesn’t sense actual guilt or innocence, he senses the person’s status in the eyes of the local law enforcement.

He also hears radio communications, typically on the police bands and news programs.

Neither of these senses are shared with his hosts’ awareness.)

“Active Hostsâ€Â

Empower 5 [Extras] [Flaws] [Feats]

Drawbacks:

Costs: Abilities (-8) + Combat (00) + Saves (00) + Skills (27) + Feats (7) + Powers (??) - Drawbacks (00) = Total Cost

[Barnum]

At rank 1 for Possession, your area radius is only 5'. I'm not sure how only being able to possess all the subjects in a 5' radius is the least bit useful.

Also, I don't think I would allow a continuous innate mental power. There is no way to counter/nullify it. Nor would I give someone a -1 Flaw discount for the advantage of having no body, especially when there is no way to counter the possession. If you really want to have no body, sell all of your physical ability scores down to 0, buy Immunity 30 [Fortitude Saves], and buy Insubstantial 4 (Permanent, Innate). That's how all of the ghost/spirit NPCs in MnM and FC are made.

And you can't grant Immunities to your host with Possession. The only parts of you that you have access to while possessing are mental powers, skills, and traits. Immunities are not mental powers. In fact, the Immunities won't even help you when you are possessing a host. You must use the hosts physical abilities, traits, and powers. Nor do I think I would approve of the Empower power having a mental descriptor and yet grant non-mental powers. That's a real stretch.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

You could probably duplicate that effect, but not with absorption. Maybe Boost [Limited], or something like that. Absorption is a Boost/Impervious Toughness effect. I can't see it working on something without a Save DC.

[Barnum]

At rank 1 for Possession, your area radius is only 5'. I'm not sure how only being able to possess all the subjects in a 5' radius is the least bit useful.

Also, I don't think I would allow a continuous innate mental power. There is no way to counter/nullify it. Nor would I give someone a -1 Flaw discount for the advantage of having no body, especially when there is no way to counter the possession. If you really want to have no body, sell all of your physical ability scores down to 0, buy Immunity 30 [Fortitude Saves], and buy Insubstantial 4 (Permanent, Innate). That's how all of the ghost/spirit NPCs in MnM and FC are made.

And you can't grant Immunities to your host with Possession. The only parts of you that you have access to while possessing are mental powers, skills, and traits. Immunities are not mental powers. In fact, the Immunities won't even help you when you are possessing a host. You must use the hosts physical abilities, traits, and powers. Nor do I think I would approve of the Empower power having a mental descriptor and yet grant non-mental powers. That's a real stretch.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

You could probably duplicate that effect, but not with absorption. Maybe Boost [Limited], or something like that. Absorption is a Boost/Impervious Toughness effect. I can't see it working on something without a Save DC.

[Barnum]

At rank 1 for Possession, your area radius is only 5'. I'm not sure how only being able to possess all the subjects in a 5' radius is the least bit useful.

Also, I don't think I would allow a continuous innate mental power. There is no way to counter/nullify it. Nor would I give someone a -1 Flaw discount for the advantage of having no body, especially when there is no way to counter the possession. If you really want to have no body, sell all of your physical ability scores down to 0, buy Immunity 30 [Fortitude Saves], and buy Insubstantial 4 (Permanent, Innate). That's how all of the ghost/spirit NPCs in MnM and FC are made.

And you can't grant Immunities to your host with Possession. The only parts of you that you have access to while possessing are mental powers, skills, and traits. Immunities are not mental powers. In fact, the Immunities won't even help you when you are possessing a host. You must use the hosts physical abilities, traits, and powers. Nor do I think I would approve of the Empower power having a mental descriptor and yet grant non-mental powers. That's a real stretch.

Also, is using Absorption on emotional or interaction effects legal? I was thinking of going that route to power his Empower. I.e. the more folks laugh at host X, the more the poor man blows up.

You could probably duplicate that effect, but not with absorption. Maybe Boost [Limited], or something like that. Absorption is a Boost/Impervious Toughness effect. I can't see it working on something without a Save DC.

[DrBalloon]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

Boost instead of Absorption makes sense.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

[DrBalloon]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

Boost instead of Absorption makes sense.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

[DrBalloon]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

Boost instead of Absorption makes sense.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

[Veiled Malice]

To give an example of what Barnum said, look at the Jack-A-Knives in the Freedom City book. He (it) is a possessing entity that uses his (its) host body's physical ability scores.

[Veiled Malice]

To give an example of what Barnum said, look at the Jack-A-Knives in the Freedom City book. He (it) is a possessing entity that uses his (its) host body's physical ability scores.

[Veiled Malice]

To give an example of what Barnum said, look at the Jack-A-Knives in the Freedom City book. He (it) is a possessing entity that uses his (its) host body's physical ability scores.

[DrBalloon]

I would, Veiled, but I don't HAVE Freedom City. Nor did the gaming shop last time I checked.

The sole 2nd ed. MnM book I currently have is the main rules.

Right now I'm checking Atomic Think Tank, but their search function doesn't seem to like my queries very much.

[DrBalloon]

I would, Veiled, but I don't HAVE Freedom City. Nor did the gaming shop last time I checked.

The sole 2nd ed. MnM book I currently have is the main rules.

Right now I'm checking Atomic Think Tank, but their search function doesn't seem to like my queries very much.

[DrBalloon]

I would, Veiled, but I don't HAVE Freedom City. Nor did the gaming shop last time I checked.

The sole 2nd ed. MnM book I currently have is the main rules.

Right now I'm checking Atomic Think Tank, but their search function doesn't seem to like my queries very much.

[cosmicarus]

Ok, well, here are Jack-A-Knives powers:

Immunity 30 (fortitude), Insubstantial 4 (permanant, innate), Mind Shield 6, Possession 9 (concious), Speed 1, Strike 2 (mystic knife, penetrating 18, mighty), Strike 20 (Alternate save: Fortitude, Limited to host, Limited to inflicting dying condition, Linked to ending of possession, perception range), Super Strength 1.

Hope this helps.

[cosmicarus]

Ok, well, here are Jack-A-Knives powers:

Immunity 30 (fortitude), Insubstantial 4 (permanant, innate), Mind Shield 6, Possession 9 (concious), Speed 1, Strike 2 (mystic knife, penetrating 18, mighty), Strike 20 (Alternate save: Fortitude, Limited to host, Limited to inflicting dying condition, Linked to ending of possession, perception range), Super Strength 1.

Hope this helps.

[cosmicarus]

Ok, well, here are Jack-A-Knives powers:

Immunity 30 (fortitude), Insubstantial 4 (permanant, innate), Mind Shield 6, Possession 9 (concious), Speed 1, Strike 2 (mystic knife, penetrating 18, mighty), Strike 20 (Alternate save: Fortitude, Limited to host, Limited to inflicting dying condition, Linked to ending of possession, perception range), Super Strength 1.

Hope this helps.

[Barnum]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

I'm not sure that there is without bending the rules, or being very generous with descriptors.

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

Yes. When you are possessing someone you use their physical traits (Str, Con, Toughness, Attack, Defense, etc.) not your own. So yes, you would loose your Immunity 30 [Con] and gain your victim's Con score (and all his other physical traits, powers, and skills).

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

With the power at Sustained duration the victim gets to make regular saves to counter the effect, and if you are trying to get them to do something out of character, they get a bonus. I think that is what balances it.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

Descriptors are there to help prevent just what you are trying to do . . . dodge your way around a power limitation. One of the things that helps balance Possession is that you lose your physical traits and powers, and have to suffer through using your victim's instead, never really knowing what you are going to get. It is part of how the power works. By slapping the "mental" label on a Virus (that has a Fort save to stop infection no less), just to get around that limitation is a huge stretch. Just like slapping the mental label on a blast so it will automatically Affect Insubstantial without having to pay the point cost.

[Barnum]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

I'm not sure that there is without bending the rules, or being very generous with descriptors.

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

Yes. When you are possessing someone you use their physical traits (Str, Con, Toughness, Attack, Defense, etc.) not your own. So yes, you would loose your Immunity 30 [Con] and gain your victim's Con score (and all his other physical traits, powers, and skills).

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

With the power at Sustained duration the victim gets to make regular saves to counter the effect, and if you are trying to get them to do something out of character, they get a bonus. I think that is what balances it.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

Descriptors are there to help prevent just what you are trying to do . . . dodge your way around a power limitation. One of the things that helps balance Possession is that you lose your physical traits and powers, and have to suffer through using your victim's instead, never really knowing what you are going to get. It is part of how the power works. By slapping the "mental" label on a Virus (that has a Fort save to stop infection no less), just to get around that limitation is a huge stretch. Just like slapping the mental label on a blast so it will automatically Affect Insubstantial without having to pay the point cost.

[Barnum]

Question than, Barnum... if a possessing entity loses their Immunities while in the host body, how do you handle lycanthropic spirits seen in some comics who grant their host immunity to physical harm other than silver?

Or the classic of the demonically possessed exhibiting superhuman strength?

The alien symbiotes of Stargate, who grant various immunities (such as not aging) to their human hosts?

I'm not sure that there is without bending the rules, or being very generous with descriptors.

Do any of the always-insubstantial spirits in the books you named have Possession powers? If so, what happens to their Immunity to Fortitude when they inhabit someone? The 30 point power gets trumped by suddenly having a CON score? Or... what? Wouldn't the Permanent flaw on their Insubstantial ability prevent them from possessing in the first place, as they'd be bypassing a significant flaw?

Yes. When you are possessing someone you use their physical traits (Str, Con, Toughness, Attack, Defense, etc.) not your own. So yes, you would loose your Immunity 30 [Con] and gain your victim's Con score (and all his other physical traits, powers, and skills).

I see how a continuous innate power would be game unbalancing. I guess I'll have to use a higher rank Possession modified differently to make to hard to "cure" someone of me. But that would also make it harder for the normal folks to resist becoming infected in the first place. Any suggestions on balancing that?

With the power at Sustained duration the victim gets to make regular saves to counter the effect, and if you are trying to get them to do something out of character, they get a bonus. I think that is what balances it.

Why would a mental Empower not be able to produce non-mental effects? What Alfie O'Meagan (his world's ultimate telekinetic) did in the final issue of Nth Man looked a lot like exactly that, Empowering John Doe's body with the full force of Alfie's mind to make a superhero strong enough to save Earth. Trying to recall any other examples from the comics, but I'm too distracted by other stuff right now.

Descriptors are there to help prevent just what you are trying to do . . . dodge your way around a power limitation. One of the things that helps balance Possession is that you lose your physical traits and powers, and have to suffer through using your victim's instead, never really knowing what you are going to get. It is part of how the power works. By slapping the "mental" label on a Virus (that has a Fort save to stop infection no less), just to get around that limitation is a huge stretch. Just like slapping the mental label on a blast so it will automatically Affect Insubstantial without having to pay the point cost.

[DrBalloon]

"Immunity 30 [Con]"

Immunity uses the Con stat? I don't quite follow your notation at that point, Barnum. What does the [Con] mean here?

Re: Sustained duration on Possession.

The problem there is if I pass out from some attack, they become instantly cured of an infection. And does normal nightly sleep make a possessor go to sleep too?

[DrBalloon]

"Immunity 30 [Con]"

Immunity uses the Con stat? I don't quite follow your notation at that point, Barnum. What does the [Con] mean here?

Re: Sustained duration on Possession.

The problem there is if I pass out from some attack, they become instantly cured of an infection. And does normal nightly sleep make a possessor go to sleep too?

[DrBalloon]

"Immunity 30 [Con]"

Immunity uses the Con stat? I don't quite follow your notation at that point, Barnum. What does the [Con] mean here?

Re: Sustained duration on Possession.

The problem there is if I pass out from some attack, they become instantly cured of an infection. And does normal nightly sleep make a possessor go to sleep too?

[Barnum]

What does the [Con] mean here?

Immunity to Constitution and Fortitude effects (from having Immunity 30 and no Con score).

The problem there is if I pass out from some attack, they become instantly cured of an infection?

Exactly. You are looking for a way to finagle the power so that it can’t ever be undone by buying extras and immunities to shut off any way to combat the virus (continuous, innate, permanent, immune to trait effects, etc.). That’s just never going to fly with me. Possession is designed (and priced) so that if you or the host get knocked unconscious or killed, your body reappears in the nearest available space.

And does normal nightly sleep make a possessor go to sleep too?

I’d say it’s the other way around. When you (the possessor) go to sleep, so does the victim. If you never go to sleep, the victim would start suffering from sleep deprivation.