Alternate Form--Projection

[eyeonthemountain]

I have been thinking more about the Alt Form-projection, and to me it seems as though the cost should depend onthe number of ranks of the Alt-form.

For example, if I take Alt-Form 10 it wold cost 40 points. 40 points I could not really use on the spur of the moment. If I were ambushed by a hero, then if I use those 40 points and change form, then the hero could simply pound my unconscious body into the ground, or I fight the hero 40 points shy of full power, which might not be very easy.

That seems balanced for a -1, or even a +0 modification.

Now where it is really abusive is where I take only a few ranks, or even worse a single rank. Suddenly for 4 points, I walk around all day with a 146 point build, and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

So to me, it depends on the number of ranks. What do you all think?

[eyeonthemountain]

I have been thinking more about the Alt Form-projection, and to me it seems as though the cost should depend onthe number of ranks of the Alt-form.

For example, if I take Alt-Form 10 it wold cost 40 points. 40 points I could not really use on the spur of the moment. If I were ambushed by a hero, then if I use those 40 points and change form, then the hero could simply pound my unconscious body into the ground, or I fight the hero 40 points shy of full power, which might not be very easy.

That seems balanced for a -1, or even a +0 modification.

Now where it is really abusive is where I take only a few ranks, or even worse a single rank. Suddenly for 4 points, I walk around all day with a 146 point build, and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

So to me, it depends on the number of ranks. What do you all think?

[Barnum]

and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

[Barnum]

and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

[Barnum]

and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

[eyeonthemountain]

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

I do not understand this. Are you agreeing with what I said in the post above, or disagreeing?

[eyeonthemountain]

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

I do not understand this. Are you agreeing with what I said in the post above, or disagreeing?

[eyeonthemountain]

Well . . . you gain the "strong ability" of changing from a 146 point hero into a 150 point hero that is just like your 146 PP hero + 4 new points in your alternate form. But you do get a really nifty "no range, free action" teleport feature for those 4 PPs, assuming you can set it up before the battle starts.

I do not understand this. Are you agreeing with what I said in the post above, or disagreeing?

[Lilac]

Now where it is really abusive is where I take only a few ranks, or even worse a single rank. Suddenly for 4 points, I walk around all day with a 146 point build, and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

How does 1 rank of Alt Form suddenly become a "strong ability?" Your Alt Form container will only have 5 PPs in it. You can't buy much with 5 PPs (a Happy Meal, maybe ). Yes, you can "change into another form," but that form will only be 5 PPs stronger than your "old" form. All for the limitation of having your body fall unconscious. I'm not seeing the abuse here, though I will admit, for a really clever player, the one-way teleport could be pretty useful, especially considering that you bought it with a *flaw*! But that would take a lot of planning to make that pay off.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[Lilac]

Now where it is really abusive is where I take only a few ranks, or even worse a single rank. Suddenly for 4 points, I walk around all day with a 146 point build, and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

How does 1 rank of Alt Form suddenly become a "strong ability?" Your Alt Form container will only have 5 PPs in it. You can't buy much with 5 PPs (a Happy Meal, maybe ). Yes, you can "change into another form," but that form will only be 5 PPs stronger than your "old" form. All for the limitation of having your body fall unconscious. I'm not seeing the abuse here, though I will admit, for a really clever player, the one-way teleport could be pretty useful, especially considering that you bought it with a *flaw*! But that would take a lot of planning to make that pay off.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[Lilac]

Now where it is really abusive is where I take only a few ranks, or even worse a single rank. Suddenly for 4 points, I walk around all day with a 146 point build, and gain the strong ability of changing into another form and and wrecking havoc with far less vulnerability than usual.

How does 1 rank of Alt Form suddenly become a "strong ability?" Your Alt Form container will only have 5 PPs in it. You can't buy much with 5 PPs (a Happy Meal, maybe ). Yes, you can "change into another form," but that form will only be 5 PPs stronger than your "old" form. All for the limitation of having your body fall unconscious. I'm not seeing the abuse here, though I will admit, for a really clever player, the one-way teleport could be pretty useful, especially considering that you bought it with a *flaw*! But that would take a lot of planning to make that pay off.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[eyeonthemountain]

My reasoning is that with a single rank, and spending a mere 4 pp, I gain the ability to put my body in a safe place, and then go out in my alterante form, which has my usual powers plus the extra bit from alternate, and whenever I am losing a fight, or get in trouble, I can immediately return to my body in the safe place with not lkimitations I can see. That ability should cost a lot more than 4 points.

[eyeonthemountain]

My reasoning is that with a single rank, and spending a mere 4 pp, I gain the ability to put my body in a safe place, and then go out in my alterante form, which has my usual powers plus the extra bit from alternate, and whenever I am losing a fight, or get in trouble, I can immediately return to my body in the safe place with not lkimitations I can see. That ability should cost a lot more than 4 points.

[eyeonthemountain]

My reasoning is that with a single rank, and spending a mere 4 pp, I gain the ability to put my body in a safe place, and then go out in my alterante form, which has my usual powers plus the extra bit from alternate, and whenever I am losing a fight, or get in trouble, I can immediately return to my body in the safe place with not lkimitations I can see. That ability should cost a lot more than 4 points.

[Barnum]

I tend to agree, but . . .

1. Your body will be pretty easy to find by anyone with the right powers. If you get it as a Flaw, you can bet the Refs will be bringing it back to haunt you at least a little.

2. At 1 rank, your projection can be countered/nullified very easily, sending you back to your hiding place. That could get annoying.

I don't think it's a flaw that really works for a game like this, but the other Refs tend to disagree, so feel free to take it. But do keep in mind that every player will know your secret (they can read your sheet), and if you pull that cheap trick too often, you might find it hard to get people to join threads with you. So . . . proceed (if you decide to) with caution.

[Barnum]

I tend to agree, but . . .

1. Your body will be pretty easy to find by anyone with the right powers. If you get it as a Flaw, you can bet the Refs will be bringing it back to haunt you at least a little.

2. At 1 rank, your projection can be countered/nullified very easily, sending you back to your hiding place. That could get annoying.

I don't think it's a flaw that really works for a game like this, but the other Refs tend to disagree, so feel free to take it. But do keep in mind that every player will know your secret (they can read your sheet), and if you pull that cheap trick too often, you might find it hard to get people to join threads with you. So . . . proceed (if you decide to) with caution.

[Barnum]

I tend to agree, but . . .

1. Your body will be pretty easy to find by anyone with the right powers. If you get it as a Flaw, you can bet the Refs will be bringing it back to haunt you at least a little.

2. At 1 rank, your projection can be countered/nullified very easily, sending you back to your hiding place. That could get annoying.

I don't think it's a flaw that really works for a game like this, but the other Refs tend to disagree, so feel free to take it. But do keep in mind that every player will know your secret (they can read your sheet), and if you pull that cheap trick too often, you might find it hard to get people to join threads with you. So . . . proceed (if you decide to) with caution.

[eyeonthemountain]

I do think you are making a bit of a mountain out of molehill considering that in the end it is the other players who will have to deal with it, especially considering that in the end it is a PL10 character, bought honestly, without boosting or such to inflate points overly much. The ability gives a decent escape clause, but for only a few points more, I could buy a long range-only teleport to a single destination as a reaction or a least a free action.

I might do it a different way, and am looking at some more options, including just plain limiting his power in some situations and not in toehrs voluntarily, outside the rules for effect.

I must say I hope you are wrong and I that everyone is not reading each other characters regularly for I surely will not be.

[eyeonthemountain]

I do think you are making a bit of a mountain out of molehill considering that in the end it is the other players who will have to deal with it, especially considering that in the end it is a PL10 character, bought honestly, without boosting or such to inflate points overly much. The ability gives a decent escape clause, but for only a few points more, I could buy a long range-only teleport to a single destination as a reaction or a least a free action.

I might do it a different way, and am looking at some more options, including just plain limiting his power in some situations and not in toehrs voluntarily, outside the rules for effect.

I must say I hope you are wrong and I that everyone is not reading each other characters regularly for I surely will not be.

[eyeonthemountain]

I do think you are making a bit of a mountain out of molehill considering that in the end it is the other players who will have to deal with it, especially considering that in the end it is a PL10 character, bought honestly, without boosting or such to inflate points overly much. The ability gives a decent escape clause, but for only a few points more, I could buy a long range-only teleport to a single destination as a reaction or a least a free action.

I might do it a different way, and am looking at some more options, including just plain limiting his power in some situations and not in toehrs voluntarily, outside the rules for effect.

I must say I hope you are wrong and I that everyone is not reading each other characters regularly for I surely will not be.

[Barnum]

You can't quite seem to make up your mind as to whether this is an under priced and "strong ability" or whether it is "making a mountain out of a molehill."

Either way, I feel no more need to argue about it. You asked, so I told you my thoughts on 1) how the Refs will deal with the Flaw, and I told you 2) from my personal experience how other players react to people exploiting Flaws and trying to turn them into Extras (or powers). In a long-running game I help Admin, we've had two players try to exploit the Projection extra just like you have suggested. The other players saw it for what it was and generally weren't interested in playing with that character.

I wouldn't be either, but maybe around here I'm alone in this.

[Barnum]

You can't quite seem to make up your mind as to whether this is an under priced and "strong ability" or whether it is "making a mountain out of a molehill."

Either way, I feel no more need to argue about it. You asked, so I told you my thoughts on 1) how the Refs will deal with the Flaw, and I told you 2) from my personal experience how other players react to people exploiting Flaws and trying to turn them into Extras (or powers). In a long-running game I help Admin, we've had two players try to exploit the Projection extra just like you have suggested. The other players saw it for what it was and generally weren't interested in playing with that character.

I wouldn't be either, but maybe around here I'm alone in this.

[Barnum]

You can't quite seem to make up your mind as to whether this is an under priced and "strong ability" or whether it is "making a mountain out of a molehill."

Either way, I feel no more need to argue about it. You asked, so I told you my thoughts on 1) how the Refs will deal with the Flaw, and I told you 2) from my personal experience how other players react to people exploiting Flaws and trying to turn them into Extras (or powers). In a long-running game I help Admin, we've had two players try to exploit the Projection extra just like you have suggested. The other players saw it for what it was and generally weren't interested in playing with that character.

I wouldn't be either, but maybe around here I'm alone in this.

[eyeonthemountain]

You can't quite seem to make up your mind as to whether this is an under priced and "strong ability" or whether it is "making a mountain out of a molehill."

Either way, I feel no more need to argue about it. You asked, so I told you my thoughts on 1) how the Refs will deal with the Flaw, and I told you 2) from my personal experience how other players react to people exploiting Flaws and trying to turn them into Extras (or powers). In a long-running game I help Admin, we've had two players try to exploit the Projection extra just like you have suggested. The other players saw it for what it was and generally weren't interested in playing with that character.

I wouldn't be either, but maybe around here I'm alone in this.

Considering that I never even submitted a character accusing me of trying to exploit the flaw is unfair. But no matter, I know better than to try to intro a power the refs are strongly against. I'll just save the concept for later.

[eyeonthemountain]

You can't quite seem to make up your mind as to whether this is an under priced and "strong ability" or whether it is "making a mountain out of a molehill."

Either way, I feel no more need to argue about it. You asked, so I told you my thoughts on 1) how the Refs will deal with the Flaw, and I told you 2) from my personal experience how other players react to people exploiting Flaws and trying to turn them into Extras (or powers). In a long-running game I help Admin, we've had two players try to exploit the Projection extra just like you have suggested. The other players saw it for what it was and generally weren't interested in playing with that character.

I wouldn't be either, but maybe around here I'm alone in this.

Considering that I never even submitted a character accusing me of trying to exploit the flaw is unfair. But no matter, I know better than to try to intro a power the refs are strongly against. I'll just save the concept for later.