benefit (wealth)

[Lord Fell]

This looks good to me.

Is this ready for the books?

[Dr Archeville]

Not 'till we hear from a majority of the Refs.

[Lord Fell]

Oh, re: Security... I think that a certain amount of security should come with any home. I recall my brother once picked the lock on a normal bathroom door with the handle of a comb... so that's DC10 at best (beatable by a 10year old using improvised tools). I'd think that a basic home would have DC15 locks and such. Someone who was struggling would probably have a place with cheaper locks (DC13) and more wealth would imply better locks and security; add +2DC per wealth level, and an additional roll to beat per wealth level. Someone who is filthy rich has... DC21 locks; an alarm system, walled grounds with cameras, and a security detail (probably means 2xDisable Device rolls, and 2xStealth rolls).

[Ecalsneerg]

It's perfectly plausible a normal HQ has low level security. After all, the 1 ep feature gives DC 20, +5 / additional ep. Thus, a DC 10 or 15 could reasonably be the default. I'm against giving out additional stuff simply due to higher Wealth ranks though.

Also, I'm OK with those wealth rules.

[angrydurf]

As for security I woudl say 15 as a base makes sense even for the rich. The rich woul have an alarm and contact the police/security whereas the average house has just locks if you want a guarded compound I think thats HQ range.

Also the higher your wealth the better neighborhood your house is in and that means quicker police response to alarms/calls.

[Ecalsneerg]

Lord Fell's recent edit request has made me realise we need to really lay out what can be considered 'free' equipment. for example, I'd happily let him have a cell phone or flash-light, but he's requested a masterwork instrument as part of this free equipment. I don't think that should be free, as it carries a bonus to perform checks.

Is that your intention, Herr Doktor?

[Dr Archeville]

I would think "Masterwork [anything]" would be understood to not be included under "General equipment". Primarily because MW gear isn't something you can buy at a corner store, it's something custom-made. Secondarily, b/c it gives a bonus -- yeah, it's a small bonus, but that's a slippery slope I don't want to start on.

[Lord Fell]

I can buy the Slippery Slope argument.

I figured it would be ok, because performing is basically a fluff skill. But, all we need is for someone to claim that since Lock Picking is just a hobby for their character, a Master Work tool-kit should also be a freebie... I'll change that to "custom painted" and lose the Masterwork.

[Ecalsneerg]

I can buy the Slippery Slope argument.

I figured it would be ok, because performing is basically a fluff skill. But, all we need is for someone to claim that since Lock Picking is just a hobby for their character, a Master Work tool-kit should also be a freebie... I'll change that to "custom painted" and lose the Masterwork.

Ah, that'd be fine even before this discussion. The rules say that, unless the DM rules otherwise, you have access to tools needed for any skill you have ranks in.

[MBCE]

Security:

Base DC 5 Standard living

Base DC 10 Wealth 1,2

Base DC 15 Wealth 3

If you want a security system that a super villain would have problems with, the standard DC 20, use an ep point to upgrade it.

Break up of rules:

I'm fine with how it was listed by the Doc.

[Dr Archeville]

Sounds good to me, though I'd suggest a Disable Device DC of 8 for Struggling, 10 for Standard, and 12/14/16 for each successive level of Wealth.

Alright, we've heard from 4/5ths of the Refs, so I'd say that's more than good enough. I'll add these to the House Rules post, then work up a separate Char Edit thread strictly for Equipment & Wealth things.

Drawback 1 (Impoverished)

You have the clothes on your back and whatever's in your pockets, and that's it.

Comic Book Example: Man Thing

Complication (Struggling)

You can usually get all your monthly bills paid, if you don't have to pay to have something repaired or replaced... but most months, you do have to pay for something to be repaired or replaced.

You either rent an apartment by yourself, or you live in a small house that either has one or two roommates, or is in either a bad neighborhood (like the Fens) or a remote rural site. DC 8 Disable Device to break in.

If you own a car, it's a Rolls Can'ardly (rolls down one hill, can 'ardly get up the next); most likely you walk, bike, or take public transportation.

Comic Book Example: Peter Parker (most versions)

Standard Wealth

Middle class, salaried employment (9-to-5 job).

You're in either an apartment or a small (1 or 2-BR) house in an average part of town, or a medium (3-BR w/ garage) house in a bad part of town or a remote rural area. DC 10 Disable Device to break in.

You have an economy or mid-size sedan, or something comparable.

Comic Book Example: ???

Benefit 1 (Wealth 1/Wealthy)

Professional employment (skilled lawyer or doctor), owner of a small business, or you draw a regular stipend from some inheritance. Upper middle class or lower upper class. (Complications can be used to reflect any responsibilities your job entails.)

You're either in an apartment or small (1 or 2 BR) house in an upscale neighborhood, a medium (3-BR w/ garage) house in an average neighborhood, or a large (4-BR w/ 2-car garage) house in a remote rural location (since homes like that don't show up in bad neighborhoods). DC 12 Disable Device to break in.

You can have any sort of car short of a high-end sports coupe; you may also have your own prop plane.

Comic Book Example: Captain America, Matthew Murdock, Foggy Nelson

Benefit 2 (Wealth 2/Rich)

You are a millionaire, and may own a small corporation (depending on complications). Solid upper class.

You live in either a medium (3-BR w/ garage) house in an upscale neighborhood, or a large (4-BR w/ 2-car garage) house in an average neighborhood, or a mansion (5 or 6 BR, 3-car garage) in a remote rural location. DC 14 Disable Device to break in.

You can have almost anything shy of a military-grade vehicle.

Comic Book Example: ???

Benefit 3 (Wealth 3/Filthy Rich)

You're a billionaire, with resources comparable to multi-national corporations or government/military branches of major countries.

You can have any sort of (standard, non-tricked out) house you want, or almost any sort of vehicle. DC 16 Disable Device to break in.

Comic Book Example: Gomez Addams, C. Montgomery Burns, Lex Luthor, Tony Stark

Each rank in the Wealth feat gives you a +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information checks which involve bribery. Having the drawback imposes a -1 penalty on those checks. The Struggling complication means you may automatically fail certain Diplomacy or Gather Information checks at he Ref's option (ex: The bouncer you're trying to talk to simply will not talk unless given an adequate bribe, which you may not be able to afford). Like Attractive, this bonus cannot increase your total effective skill rank higher than the campaign’s power level limit.

The Wealth Benefit does not carry any free status, just the money. (Wealth but no Status = eccentric wealthy recluse whom no one has heard of.)

If you want an atypical version of a vehicle or home (like a motorcylce that can turn into a helicopter, or a house with a magic scrying mirror), you need to pay for the entire vehicle/HQ, not just the upgrades.

Characters may have any sort of general equipment (camera, cell phone, computer, basic flashlight), within reason, for free. Anything which gives a bonus (ex: Masterwork items) or has a real game benefit (ex: armor, weapons) must be paid for with equipment points.

[Lord Fell]

re: Security DCs...

Just wanted to point out that the Core book (p.46) lists the standard DC for a cheap lock (such as you'd find on a brief case) as 20, which is the lowest listed. A standard house deadbolt is listed as 25. I believe you can normally take 20 on a Disable Device check to pick a lock as well. The only thing preventing anyone with a hairpin from waltzing through a normal house is that it's a Trained Only skill.

Could I suggest the DCs on (normal) dwellings be...

Struggling: DC20 (can be done by anyone with the skill, and no penalties)

Normal Wealth: DC25 (listed standard, requires 'expert' skill)

Wealthy: DC25 (cannot take 20, due to other factors, eg: alarm, dog, household staff)

Rich: DC25 (cannot take 20 as above, requires two successes)

Silly: DC30 (cannot take 20 as above, requires two successes)

[Dr Archeville]

No.

[MBCE]

Sounds good to me, though I'd suggest a Disable Device DC of 8 for Struggling, 10 for Standard, and 12/14/16 for each successive level of Wealth.

This works well. It doesn't supersede the listed Dcs of other items in the book which is good and there is a difference at each level.

Could I suggest the DCs on (normal) dwellings be...

Struggling: DC20 (can be done by anyone with the skill, and no penalties)

Normal Wealth: DC25 (listed standard, requires 'expert' skill)

Wealthy: DC25 (cannot take 20, due to other factors, eg: alarm, dog, household staff)

Rich: DC25 (cannot take 20 as above, requires two successes)

Silly: DC30 (cannot take 20 as above, requires two successes)

This doesn't work because you're getting too much for free from a benifit. It supersedes the listed DCs in the core book and that's not something we want to change too much.

If a wealthy person wants a higher DC for security, they can spend the pp for it.