A systematic problem

[Toptomcat]

I feel that it might be time to bring this issue up again, as additional hero approvals and a few deletions of villian characters due to player request or inactivity has made our hero:villian ratio nearly 5:1.

[Veiled Malice]

I share your concerns, but only insofar as the phenomenon of "ganging up". So far, this has not happened, and I can't see it happening in the future with such close GM supervision. Honestly, this will only become a problem if we let it become one.

Yes, I would like to see some more player-controlled villains, but I accept that for many people, that just does not jive with their play style. Villains are required to be very proactive, which in turn starts campaigns. If someone is not comfortable with that, they shouldn't be forced into it. If it somehow becomes a problem, you can be assured I will be among the first to bring it to everyone's attention.

[Veiled Malice]

I share your concerns, but only insofar as the phenomenon of "ganging up". So far, this has not happened, and I can't see it happening in the future with such close GM supervision. Honestly, this will only become a problem if we let it become one.

Yes, I would like to see some more player-controlled villains, but I accept that for many people, that just does not jive with their play style. Villains are required to be very proactive, which in turn starts campaigns. If someone is not comfortable with that, they shouldn't be forced into it. If it somehow becomes a problem, you can be assured I will be among the first to bring it to everyone's attention.

[Veiled Malice]

I share your concerns, but only insofar as the phenomenon of "ganging up". So far, this has not happened, and I can't see it happening in the future with such close GM supervision. Honestly, this will only become a problem if we let it become one.

Yes, I would like to see some more player-controlled villains, but I accept that for many people, that just does not jive with their play style. Villains are required to be very proactive, which in turn starts campaigns. If someone is not comfortable with that, they shouldn't be forced into it. If it somehow becomes a problem, you can be assured I will be among the first to bring it to everyone's attention.

[Toptomcat]

Would anyone else mind if I got proactive about this and started advertising specifically for villians in a few forums I know of?

[Toptomcat]

Would anyone else mind if I got proactive about this and started advertising specifically for villians in a few forums I know of?

[Toptomcat]

Would anyone else mind if I got proactive about this and started advertising specifically for villians in a few forums I know of?

[Barnum]

I wouldn't mind. Quite the opposite, but do keep in mind that we only have three active Refs, and we are all stretched pretty thin. A good portion of the players here will always have to entertain themselves, and if we grow much larger without adding more Refs or getting the other Refs that we have to become active, it will be most of the players who will have to get buy without Refs. Having more villains will actually help with this problem substantially, as long as new recruits know what they're getting into. I think VM got it right when he said that the problem with villains is that they have to be completely proactive. This is the quality that is most missing from most PbPers that I've played with over the years.

[Barnum]

I wouldn't mind. Quite the opposite, but do keep in mind that we only have three active Refs, and we are all stretched pretty thin. A good portion of the players here will always have to entertain themselves, and if we grow much larger without adding more Refs or getting the other Refs that we have to become active, it will be most of the players who will have to get buy without Refs. Having more villains will actually help with this problem substantially, as long as new recruits know what they're getting into. I think VM got it right when he said that the problem with villains is that they have to be completely proactive. This is the quality that is most missing from most PbPers that I've played with over the years.

[Barnum]

I wouldn't mind. Quite the opposite, but do keep in mind that we only have three active Refs, and we are all stretched pretty thin. A good portion of the players here will always have to entertain themselves, and if we grow much larger without adding more Refs or getting the other Refs that we have to become active, it will be most of the players who will have to get buy without Refs. Having more villains will actually help with this problem substantially, as long as new recruits know what they're getting into. I think VM got it right when he said that the problem with villains is that they have to be completely proactive. This is the quality that is most missing from most PbPers that I've played with over the years.

[Shadowboxer]

I'd be willing to take on a villian character, specifically someone who is "hands-on" and also working behind the scenes. However, and I may be completely wrong about this, in order to be a genuine threat to other players, a villian needs access to resources by means of the Wealth, Equipment and Minions feats. Also, the villian needs to have a long-term goal. Either a doomsday weapon or an apocalyptic magic ritual - something that could potentially wipe out civilization or bring the entire city under the villian's power. This is what makes villians truly memorable. And, more importantly, a greater incentive for players to take on villian charaters.

My point is that that level of power is not accessible to players at the moment, and I don't think they should have it anyway. On the other hand, if players really want to tackle that kind of story, that would require an inordinate amount of negotiation and planning with the Referees. Given that people live busy lives, it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

[Shadowboxer]

I'd be willing to take on a villian character, specifically someone who is "hands-on" and also working behind the scenes. However, and I may be completely wrong about this, in order to be a genuine threat to other players, a villian needs access to resources by means of the Wealth, Equipment and Minions feats. Also, the villian needs to have a long-term goal. Either a doomsday weapon or an apocalyptic magic ritual - something that could potentially wipe out civilization or bring the entire city under the villian's power. This is what makes villians truly memorable. And, more importantly, a greater incentive for players to take on villian charaters.

My point is that that level of power is not accessible to players at the moment, and I don't think they should have it anyway. On the other hand, if players really want to tackle that kind of story, that would require an inordinate amount of negotiation and planning with the Referees. Given that people live busy lives, it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

[Shadowboxer]

I'd be willing to take on a villian character, specifically someone who is "hands-on" and also working behind the scenes. However, and I may be completely wrong about this, in order to be a genuine threat to other players, a villian needs access to resources by means of the Wealth, Equipment and Minions feats. Also, the villian needs to have a long-term goal. Either a doomsday weapon or an apocalyptic magic ritual - something that could potentially wipe out civilization or bring the entire city under the villian's power. This is what makes villians truly memorable. And, more importantly, a greater incentive for players to take on villian charaters.

My point is that that level of power is not accessible to players at the moment, and I don't think they should have it anyway. On the other hand, if players really want to tackle that kind of story, that would require an inordinate amount of negotiation and planning with the Referees. Given that people live busy lives, it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

[Veiled Malice]

There is something to that, but I think the most memorable villains are the ones who deal with their enemies on a more personal level - and have that personality that makes them stand out from the rest of the crowd. The Joker, for example, is not all that powerful, but it's his intelligence and deranged world outlook make him a favorite of many comicgoers. Try thinking small and working up at first, because, as you said, no one here is a really heavy hitter yet. Even a PL 6 villain is deadly to almost any cop or agent out there.

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

[Veiled Malice]

There is something to that, but I think the most memorable villains are the ones who deal with their enemies on a more personal level - and have that personality that makes them stand out from the rest of the crowd. The Joker, for example, is not all that powerful, but it's his intelligence and deranged world outlook make him a favorite of many comicgoers. Try thinking small and working up at first, because, as you said, no one here is a really heavy hitter yet. Even a PL 6 villain is deadly to almost any cop or agent out there.

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

[Veiled Malice]

There is something to that, but I think the most memorable villains are the ones who deal with their enemies on a more personal level - and have that personality that makes them stand out from the rest of the crowd. The Joker, for example, is not all that powerful, but it's his intelligence and deranged world outlook make him a favorite of many comicgoers. Try thinking small and working up at first, because, as you said, no one here is a really heavy hitter yet. Even a PL 6 villain is deadly to almost any cop or agent out there.

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

[Barnum]

. . . it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

I also think there's some truth to that, but I think V_M is ultimately right. In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs, but that doesn't mean that the players can't take on the roll of some really interesting and dangerous villains. I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern. And in this game, it will almost never happen like that. That's why I'm so glad that we have such great players!

[Barnum]

. . . it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

I also think there's some truth to that, but I think V_M is ultimately right. In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs, but that doesn't mean that the players can't take on the roll of some really interesting and dangerous villains. I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern. And in this game, it will almost never happen like that. That's why I'm so glad that we have such great players!

[Barnum]

. . . it's understandable that folks would hesitate to be more proactive.

I also think there's some truth to that, but I think V_M is ultimately right. In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs, but that doesn't mean that the players can't take on the roll of some really interesting and dangerous villains. I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern. And in this game, it will almost never happen like that. That's why I'm so glad that we have such great players!

[Shadowboxer]

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

This is very true. Not only do the villian's exploits make great stories, but their (sometimes) over-the-top personalities shine the brightest.

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

Absolutely. During my short tenure as a GM I had to regulate powers and resources so players couldn't finish the game in ten minutes. And this was a villian game.

I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern.

Character-driven stories, like the ones we're reading here, do have an advantage over narrative-driven stories.

[Shadowboxer]

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

This is very true. Not only do the villian's exploits make great stories, but their (sometimes) over-the-top personalities shine the brightest.

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

Absolutely. During my short tenure as a GM I had to regulate powers and resources so players couldn't finish the game in ten minutes. And this was a villian game.

I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern.

Character-driven stories, like the ones we're reading here, do have an advantage over narrative-driven stories.

[Shadowboxer]

Personize your guy/gal/anthropomorphic animal. Make them memorable by doing something unexpected. There is a lot of city to exploit, and the setting is very rich. More important than anything, however, is your long-term goal. Baby steps, fellow villains! The world doesn't conquer itself in a day! (Talk about a mixed aphorism. )

This is very true. Not only do the villian's exploits make great stories, but their (sometimes) over-the-top personalities shine the brightest.

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

Absolutely. During my short tenure as a GM I had to regulate powers and resources so players couldn't finish the game in ten minutes. And this was a villian game.

I think most of the "apathy" I have observed (especially in PbP) stems from the fact that players are programed into a "GM posts and the players respond" pattern.

Character-driven stories, like the ones we're reading here, do have an advantage over narrative-driven stories.

[Affliction]

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

if someone wanted to do a villain like that and created a mega-npc and deathray and all that, could they temporarily become a GM/Ref and run that story?

[Affliction]

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

if someone wanted to do a villain like that and created a mega-npc and deathray and all that, could they temporarily become a GM/Ref and run that story?

[Affliction]

In this kind of game, those types of villains (mega-villains with minions and death rays, etc.) really are the domain of Refs and NPCs . . .

if someone wanted to do a villain like that and created a mega-npc and deathray and all that, could they temporarily become a GM/Ref and run that story?