A systematic problem

[Veiled Malice]

There is something to perhaps allowing players to choose PL 8/120 pp characters. I'm not exactly sure why EF didn't spring for that, as a PL 8 character would be far more useful in a fight against a PL 10 character. As it stands, all poor Amazon and Kevin can do is help out people and try not to get likewise fried. Good role playing opportunities, but fairly unsatisfing in the long run.

[Veiled Malice]

There is something to perhaps allowing players to choose PL 8/120 pp characters. I'm not exactly sure why EF didn't spring for that, as a PL 8 character would be far more useful in a fight against a PL 10 character. As it stands, all poor Amazon and Kevin can do is help out people and try not to get likewise fried. Good role playing opportunities, but fairly unsatisfing in the long run.

[zero21]

Well, I have a couple villians i've made around here, idk if they'll let me post them or no, but if it works i dont mind people (refs or gms) using them..although it would be a good idea to pm me about it so i can tell you weater or not they're already being used & some villianous tricks that i've got up thier sleeves.. :twisted:

[zero21]

Well, I have a couple villians i've made around here, idk if they'll let me post them or no, but if it works i dont mind people (refs or gms) using them..although it would be a good idea to pm me about it so i can tell you weater or not they're already being used & some villianous tricks that i've got up thier sleeves.. :twisted:

[zero21]

Well, I have a couple villians i've made around here, idk if they'll let me post them or no, but if it works i dont mind people (refs or gms) using them..although it would be a good idea to pm me about it so i can tell you weater or not they're already being used & some villianous tricks that i've got up thier sleeves.. :twisted:

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I see it as a couple of problems:

1) Yes, people like to play the hero. In my case it's just nearly impossible to figure out good reasons for doing villainous things.

2) Villains need to be pro-active. Being a hero is easy (in terms of playing a game) because you only have to react to what happens around you. It's more brainwork to come up with your own actions.

3) Villains are currently mis-matched for the heroes. According to the Mastermind's Manual a PL 10 villain is only going to last against a single PL 10 hero, and will likely cream a group of 3-4 PL 6s. Unless we get some team-ups, villains need to be of a higher PL than heroes to go solo.

4) The most important villains (at least as far as I see it) probably can't take on the heroes solo without serious equipment. I'm talking the Unscrupulous Billionaire and Mad Scientist types, the Guys Behind The Scenes. These guys just aren't going to cut it in head-to-head play, but they're the ones who create most of really big schemes, and this game needs them.

My proposal: The Mercinary system.

Create some mastermind-type villains and have them give out "jobs": steal stuff, create chaos, beat up hero Z for revenge, whatever. Mercinary villain A (who is played by someone who has no idea what to do to be villainous) comes along and chooses a job. Now suddenly Mercinary villain A has something to react against to define what to do and doesn't have to rely on his own limited ideas.

Of course, maybe it's just me who has this problem. But I think it would also simulate how villains organize in cartoons: minion thug types can't come up with a good plan to save their brains, and mastermind types are all plans but don't have the brawn to carry stuff out themselves. So the minions go to work for the mastermind. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I see it as a couple of problems:

1) Yes, people like to play the hero. In my case it's just nearly impossible to figure out good reasons for doing villainous things.

2) Villains need to be pro-active. Being a hero is easy (in terms of playing a game) because you only have to react to what happens around you. It's more brainwork to come up with your own actions.

3) Villains are currently mis-matched for the heroes. According to the Mastermind's Manual a PL 10 villain is only going to last against a single PL 10 hero, and will likely cream a group of 3-4 PL 6s. Unless we get some team-ups, villains need to be of a higher PL than heroes to go solo.

4) The most important villains (at least as far as I see it) probably can't take on the heroes solo without serious equipment. I'm talking the Unscrupulous Billionaire and Mad Scientist types, the Guys Behind The Scenes. These guys just aren't going to cut it in head-to-head play, but they're the ones who create most of really big schemes, and this game needs them.

My proposal: The Mercinary system.

Create some mastermind-type villains and have them give out "jobs": steal stuff, create chaos, beat up hero Z for revenge, whatever. Mercinary villain A (who is played by someone who has no idea what to do to be villainous) comes along and chooses a job. Now suddenly Mercinary villain A has something to react against to define what to do and doesn't have to rely on his own limited ideas.

Of course, maybe it's just me who has this problem. But I think it would also simulate how villains organize in cartoons: minion thug types can't come up with a good plan to save their brains, and mastermind types are all plans but don't have the brawn to carry stuff out themselves. So the minions go to work for the mastermind. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I see it as a couple of problems:

1) Yes, people like to play the hero. In my case it's just nearly impossible to figure out good reasons for doing villainous things.

2) Villains need to be pro-active. Being a hero is easy (in terms of playing a game) because you only have to react to what happens around you. It's more brainwork to come up with your own actions.

3) Villains are currently mis-matched for the heroes. According to the Mastermind's Manual a PL 10 villain is only going to last against a single PL 10 hero, and will likely cream a group of 3-4 PL 6s. Unless we get some team-ups, villains need to be of a higher PL than heroes to go solo.

4) The most important villains (at least as far as I see it) probably can't take on the heroes solo without serious equipment. I'm talking the Unscrupulous Billionaire and Mad Scientist types, the Guys Behind The Scenes. These guys just aren't going to cut it in head-to-head play, but they're the ones who create most of really big schemes, and this game needs them.

My proposal: The Mercinary system.

Create some mastermind-type villains and have them give out "jobs": steal stuff, create chaos, beat up hero Z for revenge, whatever. Mercinary villain A (who is played by someone who has no idea what to do to be villainous) comes along and chooses a job. Now suddenly Mercinary villain A has something to react against to define what to do and doesn't have to rely on his own limited ideas.

Of course, maybe it's just me who has this problem. But I think it would also simulate how villains organize in cartoons: minion thug types can't come up with a good plan to save their brains, and mastermind types are all plans but don't have the brawn to carry stuff out themselves. So the minions go to work for the mastermind. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[MarkK]

Ahm.. most player created villains really only should be able to take on a single hero of the same power level, that's just comics really.

The villains could always do things like form villain teams and the like, honestly. Again, similar to comics where, say, Spiderman's rogues periodically get together to form the sinister six.

This beyond all that hasn't really been some huge problem yet. In the one fight that can be given as an example so far fer instance, while there is a main ongoing fight, the other characters have had stuff to do like get the fire put out, rescue people from buildings, etc.

[MarkK]

Ahm.. most player created villains really only should be able to take on a single hero of the same power level, that's just comics really.

The villains could always do things like form villain teams and the like, honestly. Again, similar to comics where, say, Spiderman's rogues periodically get together to form the sinister six.

This beyond all that hasn't really been some huge problem yet. In the one fight that can be given as an example so far fer instance, while there is a main ongoing fight, the other characters have had stuff to do like get the fire put out, rescue people from buildings, etc.

[MarkK]

Ahm.. most player created villains really only should be able to take on a single hero of the same power level, that's just comics really.

The villains could always do things like form villain teams and the like, honestly. Again, similar to comics where, say, Spiderman's rogues periodically get together to form the sinister six.

This beyond all that hasn't really been some huge problem yet. In the one fight that can be given as an example so far fer instance, while there is a main ongoing fight, the other characters have had stuff to do like get the fire put out, rescue people from buildings, etc.

[Endless Flight]

Both of my characters are going to be villains. :|

[Endless Flight]

Both of my characters are going to be villains. :|

[Endless Flight]

Both of my characters are going to be villains. :|

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

[MarkK]

There's also things like heroes pursuing their own projects (some of them might be proactive enough to be interested in stuff like city improvement), people generally interacting, the use of the training/arena rooms (still waiting on the one for heroes to get a thread), participating in mini campaigns and the like.

Between all that, I don't think there's necessarily going to be some mad rush of everyone on chat to jump on some villain's face all at the same time if they pop up in a room, is all I'm saying. This place just started up, give things a bit to coalesce.

That even aside, there's also not exactly anything /wrong/ with making a villain character who's basic notion is simply to rob banks and the like. That's the basic notion of a lot of them out there.

[MarkK]

There's also things like heroes pursuing their own projects (some of them might be proactive enough to be interested in stuff like city improvement), people generally interacting, the use of the training/arena rooms (still waiting on the one for heroes to get a thread), participating in mini campaigns and the like.

Between all that, I don't think there's necessarily going to be some mad rush of everyone on chat to jump on some villain's face all at the same time if they pop up in a room, is all I'm saying. This place just started up, give things a bit to coalesce.

That even aside, there's also not exactly anything /wrong/ with making a villain character who's basic notion is simply to rob banks and the like. That's the basic notion of a lot of them out there.

[MarkK]

There's also things like heroes pursuing their own projects (some of them might be proactive enough to be interested in stuff like city improvement), people generally interacting, the use of the training/arena rooms (still waiting on the one for heroes to get a thread), participating in mini campaigns and the like.

Between all that, I don't think there's necessarily going to be some mad rush of everyone on chat to jump on some villain's face all at the same time if they pop up in a room, is all I'm saying. This place just started up, give things a bit to coalesce.

That even aside, there's also not exactly anything /wrong/ with making a villain character who's basic notion is simply to rob banks and the like. That's the basic notion of a lot of them out there.

[Endless Flight]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

That's all you can think of? Is that what characters like Dr. Doom and Magneto are all about?

[Endless Flight]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

That's all you can think of? Is that what characters like Dr. Doom and Magneto are all about?

[Endless Flight]

I'm just saying I'd be willing to play a villain, except the only things I can think of to do are steal random stuff and cause senseless destruction.

That's all you can think of? Is that what characters like Dr. Doom and Magneto are all about?

[zero21]

Good examples endless, here are a few others-Punisher, Senator Kelly, Hulk, Iron-man(grr)

the above would be classified as "villians" by alot of people..but perception is often more important than the actual truth..kelly thinks hes doing right, & he does have a point, but is he right? same with punsiher..hes a villian in that he's taken it upon himself as judge, jury & usually executioner..is he right or wrong to do that?

Despite this being a 4-color campaign, theres still room for moral ambiguity-not really "good" but nothing like Damien :twisted:

[zero21]

Good examples endless, here are a few others-Punisher, Senator Kelly, Hulk, Iron-man(grr)

the above would be classified as "villians" by alot of people..but perception is often more important than the actual truth..kelly thinks hes doing right, & he does have a point, but is he right? same with punsiher..hes a villian in that he's taken it upon himself as judge, jury & usually executioner..is he right or wrong to do that?

Despite this being a 4-color campaign, theres still room for moral ambiguity-not really "good" but nothing like Damien :twisted: