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Ari

Freedom League lineup and role

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Well, I don't plan on this happening anytime soon, but since the discussion is ongoing: I've wanted Leviathan to end up on the Freedom League since I first submitted him.  He idolizes pretty much all the current members and freaks whenever he gets to work with one; being invited would perhaps be the best day of his life (which is why I'm in no hurry to rush it).  My plan is for him to eventually be half Hulk, half Daedalus.  I want to hold off on such a big step until he gets more experience, mellows out some, and becomes a hero who helps for the sake of helping, instead of because it's always been his dream. 

 

But for now, if any of the FL members are interested, I'd be happy to do team-ups so he can build connections.  Early on, I think he'll get a reputation as an enthusiastic "sidekick" who perhaps needs a short leash but shows promise.  Any experienced hero (especially if they're famous enough to get his full, wide-eyed attention) would probably soon suspect that his grim, stoic personality is largely an act, especially if he's side-by-side with somebody who actually walks the walk, so to speak. 

 

In any case, I definitely approve of making the League centered on PCs; I always thought it was a shame that the forum's big, long-time heroes had to play second fiddle to NPCs from the sourcebook. 

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Hmmm. I can't say no to the idea of Leviathan aspiring to this. Though this might be a good idea of how to come up with a "vouching" process to get onto the FLAux. Probably not anything as formalized as "you need two recommendations and a notarized document," but a way of making sure a character has a level of socialization and seniority that gives them an inroad. That may still be a bit mechanized, but still. Worth a thought.

 

And if names are being submitted... as somebody mentioned, we do have a PC Star Knight. So, I would be happy to have Cavalier join the team. 

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My personal opinion would be a minimum of 2 PLs worth of PPs earned in game with the character, as a way to judge the player's investment on the character, on an OOC level. It could be more PPs than that, I'm just tossing a number here as a baseline.

 

IC, I think having two League members vouch for the character is not a bad place to start. Expanding on this thought, making it a choice between either 3 PC League members OR 1 PC and 1 NPC League member would promote would be joiners to establish social links with their would be teammates from the go (and on the second case, encourage familiarization with the established setting itself), but it may be far too mechanic-y. I dunno.

 

Just throwing some thoughts on the wall here.

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I think you're on the right track in terms of the things a prospective member would need to demonstrate, Vahn, namely in-character development and the trust of other Leaguers and an out-of-character demonstration of quality from the player themselves. Putting specific amounts of PP earned or a codified voting process into place seems needlessly artificial, however.

 

Historically a PC joins a team when there's discussion between that character's player and the players of the team's other characters that leads everyone to think it's a good idea. A character being too underpowered to keep up, not being at a place where it makes sense in-character or friction between players who would have to write together are all legitimate reasons to decide against an addition and I think it's healthier to discuss them openly than hiding behind a certain number of votes.

 

The Freedom League is a bit of a special case, sure, in that as a community we needed to discuss here how we wanted to use that setting concept going forward and the inherent prestige may make the process of adding or removing characters a little more fraught than with other PC teams. All the more reason, then, to be flexible and thoughtful. If a long-time player used a PL12 slot and worked with other players to create a character with strong ties to a Freedom League legacy would we want them to get up to PL14 before even having a discussion about them joining the team? I also wouldn't want people to think that once they've earned a certain amount of PP their character is entitled to a League position only to be disappointed if doesn't happen for other reasons.

 

In-character I think vouching process has some merit since you'd probably want to see a new character team-up with League members a few times in the process of developing and reaching the point where joining the team made sense but what about a character like Comrade Frost where part of the idea is that nobody really likes working with him? The benchmarks you're suggesting make sense, it's just a little too easy to think of times we'd want to bend them and make exceptions.

 

There probably needs to be an understanding that a brand new player with a brand new character won't be having them join up but that already goes for any PC team and I think most new players would be hesitant to be thrown onto centre stage like that right away anyway. I might be underestimating the number of characters/players who will be jockeying for a spot of the team in which case these 'qualifications' might bear revisiting but I think for now we can afford to be more organic about it and just treat the Freedom League the same way we would any other PC team.

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No argument there, Gizmo. I mentioned those as minimum benchmarks, but more in the sense of being eligible to apply for membership, not for a no contest approval.

 

But still, you raise excellent points, especially in regards to established players using a PL12 slot. A mechanical PP accruement limit certainly doesn't make sense here (the player has obviously demonstrated their commitment to RPing in the site, beyond shadow of a doubt). I still think, though, that they'd need to be somehow established in the lore's setting, in order to apply, and not just join right out of approval. And if vouching wouldn't make sense, then some alternative, perhaps? Have them earned some noteable fame, in an important and/or prolific event? Perhaps they helped a politician or a wealthy socialite, or maybe they defended a vitally important charity organization, in a very public manner, earning them political clout? Perhaps they had the chance to demostrate to league members that they've got what it takes, despite being anti-social or off-putting? But I digress.

 

In the end, League membership could very well be open invitation, just like the Praetorians. But no matter the direction we chose, I believe having at least a rule-of-thumb, must-be-this-known-to-join threshold would help keep the joining process clear, at least for newcomers.

 

Just my 2 cents on that :)

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Will also post this here, to get some possible feedback/serve as inspiration for non-guides:

 

 

Gonna throw out some ideas and opinions, feel free to use them as you will, some of them might be good, some bad.

 

I’d say The FL should be “The brightest of the brightest”, yeah. The people that are called when there’s massive threats, essentially.  That’s probably something most of us agree on. Probably on a global scale, yes, where they aren’t really locked into any single location, which also allows for a variety of possible plot hooks. International heroes, or local ones that aren’t really bound to their location. As for the organization and sub-teams:

 

Chances are this main FL would probably not called into action too often, as many threats would be something that’s deemed as not enough of a threat to handle the full team (why? I don’t know to be honest, but it feels like that’s part of the genre for whatever reason). So, perhaps each of this team’s members would also be part of a smaller team, serving in a sort of leader function? The teams would probably be formed either on location, focus, expertise, or some assignment?

 

So you’d have the main team, who are also part of smaller teams with different focuses, to handle the threats that won’t require full involvement. Then, if something big happens, you have the main team, who can go right into the action themselves, but also the sub-teams who could potentially work together, under the command of the “main” heroes.

 

Now, this is more of a worldbuilding thing than something specifically made for a site like this, and I’m a bit iffy on how it’d handle in play, since you’d have a distinction between “The brightest” and “those just working for them”, and it’d also put PCs (maybe even an NPC or too, depending on how things go?) into positions where they are in the position of being other PC’s superiors. Interesting, but I don’t know how well it’d handle in play.

Edited by olopi

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In practice I think it will be less 'threats are rarely bad enough to call in the League' and more 'threats are rarely bad enough to call in the whole League'. As you say, with any PC team it's frequently unwieldily to have a full six or seven person roster in a single thread but having three or four members of that team responding to a situation is much more manageable and it's usually easy to explain away the absence of the remainder. When a thread is constructed with the whole of the team in mind it's naturally an appropriately sprawling, epic moment!

 

I wouldn't worry overmuch about 'side teams' just yet, not while the main roster is still being hammered out (how's that coming, by the way?). If Comrade Frost decides he needs to call in some other practitioners to deal with a mystical threat he can just do that, we don't need to have established a 'Freedom League Dark' ahead of time. If there's a grouping that happens repeatedly then great but trying to proactively form teams of all the magic users, all the stealthy heroes, all the space-worthy characters and so on very quickly puts us in Justice League Unlimited territory.

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I think we've decided - correct me if I'm wrong - on the decreased roles for the NPCs and so, we ought check in with the Freedom League Aux to confirm that they all are going to stay on the main team and then see about getting those players to nudge along whatever recruitment threads need to happen for other people to start getting their stories told?

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Okay, I'm going to try and simplify and distill things down some.

 

1.) We've gotten a good handle on what to do with existing Freedom League NPCs; I'd say Gizmo's had some good suggestions, let's consider that matter handled.

2.) The principle of Freedom League membership doesn't require a set power level.

3.) A question is going around to FLAux members as to whether they want to "upgrade" their membership (yay we're going to First Class instead of Coach!). These folks will be the initial Main Roster.

4.) We shouldn't worry about Team USA, FL2nd, FLSHADOW, FLXXXTREEEEMEME, or whatever right now. Just the single, "central", main roster. Which is, as stated above, being discussed in a PM thread. 

 

Honestly we've made some good strides. Once we get answers from players about yes/no being Freedom League, we can move from there. 

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To follow on from my post earlier:

 

Quote

Retirement and Thanksgiving(American) party on the Lighthouse. Ceberation of Captain Thunder, Dr. Cassandra Vale and the other Silver/Bronze Age Leaguers leaving the team to the new group's capable hands.

 

Then trouble alert, the team hastens to the scene and allies with the Whatevermachine to take down the Problem(maybe something really big and non-living, with lots of different parts for people to show off their powers/skills). The Problem is defeated, the difference in style is shown and the two groups leave on more or less good terms.

 

Obviously that has its own problems, but I feel this way is simplest and most manageable and gets things rolling without unnecessary niggles.

 

Gizmo, I readily acknowledge that this still has the problems you specifically mentioned as things you wanted nothing to do with. A thread to blatantly transition, a big jumble of NPCs, but as quoted I still think something so simple and direct is the best way into this.

 

As for the threat itself?

 

Superior bursts from the Zero Zone, followed by an army of fellow exiles and bent on FINALLY conquering the Earth. Or maybe alone, having attained the power to warp reality itself around him to his whim.

 

Overshadow pulls on his Shadow Destroyer-pattern pants and attacks Freedom City with the shadows of its own people, even its heroes.

 

So-Lar the Living Sun rolls in and tries to eat the Earth again? Only this time it's got a posse of folks burning with the White Light of Truth.

 

The sunken land of Lemuria, marinating in fell magic for eons, rises from the deep with armies of machines, abominations and a thirst for vengeance against all humanity in its ancient heart.

 

Argo attempts to seize Washington D.C. to become president by right of conquest.

 

What appears to be a Grond-like monster rampage is a distraction by a cadre of villains from the theft of all of Ft. Knox. And every other gold reserve on America. I mean the Earth.

 

Negator turns into a living rift between the Universe and the Counterverse. Every moment he remains this way means an invasion of Counterversians attempting to repel what they interpret as an invasion by the 'sttamorp' of Prime. And a cascade of people into the Battle Roil between their worlds.

 

In all seriousness I don't know what would be big and serious without being ridiculous and overblown. I was considering "Overshadow tries to pull a fast one with the next Operation: Inundation", but I don't know if anyone would care about that.

 

In short it ought to be something that really merits the attention of a whole Freedom League and makes use of all their talents and isn't something that's likely to come up again. Any ideas?

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I think you misunderstood what I'd said a little, Ari. A transitionary thread was a given but I didn't want the focus to be on the retiring NPCs rather than on the PCs. Having them respond to a large threat and publicly debut as the new lineup would make perfect sense, let's just avoid several pages about the NPC Leaguers before we get to that part.

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I think any thread to introduce the new lineup needs to really be about defining what that team is.  They are heavy hitters but what about the team separates them from heavy hitter teams like the Interceptors, or Liberty League.  Go too big and it strains credulity that the FL alone steps in (assorted invasion scenarios run into this just from the nature of how big an invasion force really is).  Not to mention why the not yet or barely retired A team isn't stepping in for 'one last go'.

 

I think it has been pretty well established that we don't want this tied into a crossover mega-event style thing so perhaps the thread should be more along the lines of a hand off of the "Day to Day" of the Freedom League dealing with major threats that up till now don't usually get attention on screen but are big.  That tends toward international and towards lots of power but not alot of organization.  Basically a High PL threat on a rampage kinda scenario so the league swoops in and takes care of it, another day at the office.  Kaiju threat of beast of Kilimanjaro certainly could qualify.  Or set up on of the red threats from Geezers old thread as a recently empowered super that's out of control for some reason.  Setting it outside Freedom City explains why a big threat isn't met by more local involvement as well and plays up the world wide scope of the leagues endeavors.

 

Probably open it up with something like the Main league handing over the keys informally as they set up to go give their retirement speeches that evening so the Aux steps up to handle the threat and prove why they are ready to sit at the big table now.

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On 9/23/2016 at 11:11 PM, KnightDisciple said:

4.) We shouldn't worry about Team USA, FL2nd, FLSHADOW, FLXXXTREEEEMEME, or whatever right now. Just the single, "central", main roster. Which is, as stated above, being discussed in a PM thread

 

Emphasis mine.

 

This shouldn't be a thing.  The subject is one that is important to all members of the community and they should be permitted to have input.  Discussing who is going to write what in the Guidebook is perfectly acceptable in PMs, as well as other organizational tasks.

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That is probably a bit poorly worded Nick.  The discussion in PM has been about what the players of the current Aux members want for their characters.  From there the discussion on any additional members of a core FL and new FL Aux lineup will be discussed publicly (as AA has started for new Aux members).

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I think we're all still figuring out how the Lighthouse forum is going to be used in practice but we're on the right track now!

 

durf makes a good point, I think, in that this ought to be a threat that's not so wide-spread it would be a site-wide event or right in the city where the heroes would have a better chance to regroup and organize beyond the League. A giant monster definitely fits the bill and meets the 'very public' requirement, too. The 'out of control heavy hitter' thought reminds me of the Graviton sequence at the beginning of the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series, which also works!

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I like the Graviton thing - what if we say it's a breakout at Buckner Ridge, the new federal super-prison in Cooper County, Missouri

 

Because it's away from Freedom City, it makes sense to send the new guys and not have backup handy when it turns out to be a big problem. 

 

I think it's time to give another one of the Red Tier Blockbusters a chance... 

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I have some thoughts on this that I'll try to organize for when I can post more easily/substantially tonight. I like the direction we are heading in at this point. 

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Right, so.

 

What: A thread for the new PC Freedom League to show their stuff, and be their first adventure as the Freedom League!

Who: The PCs on the League. (This is, I believe, in the last bits of being ironed out.)

Where: Start in Freedom Hall, move to somwhere around Cooper County, Missouri.

Why: Because Bowman gets a distress call from Maverick (leader of the Barnstormers). A high-level threat/criminal has broken out of the new super-prison, and none of the Barnstormers are free (except Maverick, and even he isn't that lucky). The Freedom League is needed to stop him/her!

When: The day after a big private party where Captain Thunder's retirement is celebrated, along with the induction of the new League members. It's the day they're at Freedom Hall, going through boring procedural stuff. And the day after is the public ceremonies.

This means the thread itself can focus on the FL and their adventure, but there's a sense of context.

 

Not trying to dictate, but that's my thoughts on how to tackle this. 

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So for the Rampaging Thing I'm thinking Geez3r's Kaiju Kong, the Typhoon Terror. Say Lockdown got the "privilege" of hosting the thing because keeping it near the ocean wouldn't make much sense. But its broken out(OR DID etc) and is carving a swathe of destruction across Mizzoura. Its Will might need bolstering just a bit, though.

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Are we just using your lineup of US government-sanctioned folks for the other team? If not wouldn't be hard to just take the builds best suited to that(Agent Paragon etc) and give them a few quirks and a history. 

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Alright, so how about making this a New Year's thing? A fresh start.

 

Those brain geniuses at Lockdown fitted Kaiju Kong with a device to make him more self-aware, more conscious of the harm he's been doing. So now when he's broken out he's just as strong and way smarter and mentally-tougher than before.

 

The new Freedom League goes into action during a retirement party for some of the League's oldest members, right before the big farewell speeches from longtime Leaguers. They're joined by the Project: Safeguard supers and together stop the Typhoon Terror from raising the roofs off every house in Michigan.

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